Verizon is asking the FCC for permission to retire copper networks throughout its service territory in New York, Massachusetts, Maryland, Virginia, Rhode Island and Pennsylvania. In recent months the company has asked to kill copper in hundreds of exchanges in those states. These range from urban exchanges in New York City to exchanges scattered all over the outer suburbs of Washington DC and Baltimore. Some of these filings can be found at this site.
The filings ask to retire the copper wires. Verizon will no longer support copper in these exchanges and will stop doing any maintenance on copper. The company intends to move people who still are served by copper over to fiber and is not waiting for the FCC notice period to make such conversions. Verizon is also retiring the older DMS telephone switches, purchased years ago from the long-defunct Northern Telecom. Telephone service will be moved to more modern softs switches that Verizon uses for fiber customers.
The FCC process requires Verizon to notify the public about plans to retire copper and if no objections are filed in a given exchange the retirement takes place 90 days after the FCC’s release of the public notice to retire. Verizon has been announcing copper retirements since February 2017 and was forced to respond to intervention in some locations, but eventually refiled most retirement notices a second time.
Interestingly, much of the FiOS fiber network was built by overlashing fiber onto the copper wires, so the copper wires on poles are likely to remain in place for a long time to come.
From a technical perspective, these changes were inevitable. Verizon is the only big telco to widely build fiber plan in residential neighborhoods and it makes no sense to ask them to maintain two technologies in neighborhoods with fiber.
I have to wonder what took them so long to get around to retiring the copper. Perhaps we have that answer in language that is in each FCC request where Verizon says it “has deployed or plans to deploy fiber-to-the-premises in these areas”. When Verizon first deployed FiOS they deployed it in a helter-skelter manner, mostly sticking to neighborhoods which had the lowest deployment cost, usually where they could overlash on aerial copper. At the time they bypassed places where other utilities were buried unless the neighborhood already had empty conduit in place. Perhaps Verizon has quietly added fiber to fill in these gaps or is now prepared to finally do so.
That is the one area of concern raised by these notices. What happens to customers who still only have a copper alternative? If they have a maintenance issue will Verizon refuse to fix it? While Verizon says they are prepared to deploy fiber everywhere, what happens to customers until the fiber is in front of their home or business? What happens to their telephone service if their voice switch is suddenly turned off?
I have to hope that Verizon has considered these situations and that they won’t let customers go dead. While many of the affected exchanges are mostly urban, many of them include rural areas that are not covered by a cable company competitor, so if customers lose Verizon service, they could find themselves with no communications alternative. Is Verizon really going to build FiOS fiber in all of the rural areas around the cities they serve?
AT&T is also working towards eliminating copper and offers fixed cellular as the alternative to copper in rural places. Is that being considered by Verizon but not mentioned in these filings?
I also wonder what happens to new customers. Will Verizon build a fiber drop to a customer who only wants to buy a single telephone line? Will Verizon build fiber to new houses, particularly those in rural areas? In many states the level of telephone regulation has been reduced or eliminated and I have to wonder if Verizon still sees themselves as the carrier of last resort that is required to provide telephone service upon request.
Verizon probably has an answer to all of these questions, but the FCC request to retire copper doesn’t force the company to get specific. All of the questions I’ve asked wouldn’t exist if Verizon built fiber everywhere in an exchange before exiting the copper business. As somebody who has seen the big telcos fail to meet promises many times, I’d be nervous if I was a Verizon customer still served by copper and had to rely on Verizon’s assurance that they have ‘plans’ to bring fiber.
A significant concern are power outages. Copper lines, as a redundant safety system, can carry alarm signals to via relay stations with generator power backup. FIOS subsystems with battery power backup at branch points, seem to die quickly. Mobile phone carriers, such as those mounted on HV lines, may die quickly as well. This does not even take an EMP.
Copper lines when switched to FIOS would die rapidly as well. For example, On 6/30/2019, our FIOS died some 15 minutes after an area-wide power outage while our backup system maintained LAN function for the next few hours.
Hello, Wolfram–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
I agree with Wolfram’s comment below. Every time I ask our local Verizon people what they are doing to resolve (or create an alternative) to the limited battery back-up system for our local phones that are on the FIOS system, I get a blank stare! Isn’t anyone concerned about another 9/11 or worse? Our electrical grids in the U.S. are already prime targets.
How about at least adding the option of a solar grid to the back-up unit? The last Verizon info I read on their Fios phone system listed their battery back-up as having only “UP TO” 2 – 6 hours of power. What about all the folks and elderly who have health problems and must have access to a working phone in case they need EMS or need to transmit important health data from medical devices?? I believe the percentage of the population this will affect is rather significant. Who is considering them?
If these problems have already been addressed and resolved and I am simply ignorant of the situation, please do let me know. It is a major concern for our family and I am tired of fighting with Verizon about this. None, in our local area anyway, seem to be able to provide us with answers.
While I agree that newer technology is great and it does not make good business sense to continue to spend money running what they consider an “obsolete” system … until the new fiber optics systems meet all the public’s basic requirements for service, the old system can hardly be considered “obsolete.” I feel Verizon is putting “profits” in front of “people.” Again, if I am wrong, someone please provide me with an adequate and TRUE explanation. I’ve had quite enough of the “company line.” Thank you.
The FCC requires that telephone companies offer two options for backing up phones – an 8-hour and a 24-hour backup. The phone companies must provide a cost for the solution, and usually it’s a one-time fee for the back-up gear. You can usually do better by buying a good UPS yourself.
However, as you already have figured out, having back-up is worthless if the fiber network isn’t working. Unlike the old days where copper carried electricity even when the services might not be working, the fiber network carries only light and not electricity.
I wish there was a better answer for you. There are ways for you to provide back up power for the ONT (the Verizon electronics on the outside of the house). But that can get rather complicated. And it doesn’t help to power that little box if the Verizon network is down because of fiber cuts from fallen trees and that sort of thing.
Thank you for your response. I do appreciate it. I just wish we had a solution. Have a great day!
Hello, Sandy–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
I am one of the Verizon customers who service has been turned off. Did not know why. Called Verizon made appointment to have them come and update. They turned service back on. Next day turned off. Still no service. Thinking of canceling Verizon landline. The only calls I get on landline are robo calls anyway
Verizon makes me angry. By the way, Mary, this is your cousin Jimmy.
Hello, Mary–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
Verizon used the copper lines to build Fios. It all about money and all those politicians whom pockets have been lined. What happened to not having a conglomeration? Having to purchase backup batteries is an additional cost. Has the Government given up its reliable copper lines? How is it environmentally friendly with the increase to dispose of batteries?
Carbon footprint…… yeah right whatever
Major outage today. They forced our business to drop our reliable, good old fashioned POTS lines three months ago. We never had an outage in 10 years on copper. Now half our business lines are down. I wonder how expensive it really is to maintain the copper when (as this article states) it probably shares the infrastructure with the fiber? This is a public safety issue, not to mention that our business services are severely impacted. Zero problems with the copper lines, ever. Three months on this and we’re already having an outage.
The U.S. once had the best communications system in the world on copper and your phone almost never went down. What do we have now? Cell phones with voice quality that is often poor that you have to charge every day and can lose, leaving you with the same communications ability a person had in 1776. Fiber optics “land lines” (VOIPS) offer rediculously limited battery backup capability …and we also now have a sea of confusing phone options to wade through. We’ve given away a lot of reliability for mobility and data capability. The data is great and now a necessity…but the simple telephone that almost never failed to keep us connected on copper wire and that you just picked up to use…with no passwords, thumb prints or face recognition…the simple landline phone was the miracle device that we gave away in the process. Thought should have been put into saving that reliability early on…but it seems there was no will and now, no way to save that. We never learn; do we? We never consider what we could lose for going wild over a shiny, new object…
Hello, Disconnected–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
Hello, Kim Jong Surge–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
In Hurricane Bob, in 1991, the landlines continued to work fine even though many utility poles were down and most of Cape Cod had a least a week without electricity. I doubt we’ll see that level of phone reliability again. More recently, in 2020, I’m noticing landline reliability is decreasing. More static, more failures, more repairs. Seems like Verizon is already letting landlines decay in MA. A basic POTs landline still has a purpose, especially for things like alarm systems, and can be hard to replace for a small office or a remote location where internet isn’t easily available.
Hello, Dan–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
Where/how do I find an alternative copper landline carrier (are there any in New York City?!)?: Verizon has given me a cutoff date for my copper landline of 10/20/2020, despite one letter (of three) from them stating that Covid19 pandemic stayed their replacement for several months. I’m one of the last holdouts in the area, a senior running alarm, CO2 detector, Medical Alert (Wilkie talkie) through Central Station on my copper landline lifeline. I am sheltered in place and have health concerns about Verizon techs tracking Coronavirus through my home, as they install fiber optic batteries and service. One Verizon supervisor told me that I could opt for copper cable service with “another copper carrier.”
I don’t think there is anybody else.
Would love to hear an update Ellen.
I just postponed my Verizon appointment to end of January.
I would love to retain copper service for as long as possible. Verizon is so unwilling to give more information than absolutely required.
I was also told by someone at verizon that I could try to find “another copper carrier”. However, I have no idea how to really find another carrier and am not succeeding so far.
I was told I need a dedicated outlet for the battery back ups. I currently do not have an outlet or a place for the battery in my tiny condo. Before covid, I had expected to find out what some of my neighbors are doing/thinking. Have not seen too many of them and I keep forgetting.
And would love to know as someone asked above—Has the government given up all their copper service ?
NY state is one of a very few that do not have a consumer utility advocate of any kind.
Hi Lisa, I put in a complaint to the NYS Public Service Commission, which regulates copper landline service, but does not oversee fiber optic service in New York State. That is probably one reason to eliminate copper — no regulators! NYS took my complaint on the basis that we are in a Covid emergency, and Verizon had stopped the changeover and notified me in one letter, then sent another letter demanding that I comply or they would shut off service on 10/20/20 and I am in an identified at risk group, but NYS told me that Verizon had the right to “migrate” my service. Verizon (at first) failed to respond as required by law. Then, I got a call from their “executive” offices. Verizon threatened to shut off service, then did so on 20/20/20, as the State of NY did not give a damn about Verizon techs tracking Covid virus house to house through my “shelter in place” at risk home, or that there had been a noticed halt to the conversion in Spring, when my area was much less of a Covid hot zone. I could not find “another copper carrier” which seems to be a mythical entity (like a unicorn) as there seem to be none! Verizon has a monopoly on copper service, apparently. To get my phone service, including a medical alert, restored (after three days and calling every elected official and government entity in creation), I had to put in an “order” for conversion, which I did as far out on their calendar as possible. And, I told Verizon that if the pandemic is as bad or worse when the date comes up, I will move the appointment forward to another date. If you find a substitute copper carrier in New York City/State, please let me know.
Correction: Verizon shut off my service on 10/20/2020.
See: New York State Public Utilities Commission. They are toothless/powerless to preserve copper cable service or prevent migration to fiber optics (FIOS), even though we are in a Covid emergency and under Governor Cuomo’s edicts to shelter in place. No at risk person or household should be forced to expose themselves to Verizon technicians who are going house to house dragging life threatening Covid 19 along with them, and/or who may be infected with or without symptoms. Maintaining copper landlines during a pandemic saves lives, dragging Covid virus house to house does not!
Hello, Lisa–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
All the other copper carriers would have used Verizon’s copper. The FCC declared that Verizon no longer needs to lease out that copper to others. So no luck there.
Hello, Ellen–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
We are in an area in south New Jersey that was forced off of copper several years ago. No amount of fighting it would beat them. They promised us up and down that there would be no increase to cost and the service would be just as good if not better. They are in it for them and not for the customer and there is no winning against a company so big with so many pockets greased.
The cost went up immediately for 2 reasons, because they shut our phone off, the grandfathered plan we had been promised, was no longer on the table. That almost doubled our bill! Then, they had to plug in something to keep the phone going, which increased electrical bill. Large storms have knocked power out for days; their battery backups, no matter how many batteries they give you, don’t keep your telephone service running, maybe 24 hours, 48 would be a stretch.
We pointed these things out to them, since we had a letter stating no change in costs, and went to the BBB. Nothing we did had any affect on them. They were moving forward whether we did or not. And as one person pointed out, a whole load of D batteries will go in the trash regularly because of this!
Also, it really seems as though they are just pushing people out, not even to Fios. A friend lives in an area that does not have FIOS available, and, per the Verizon workers on trucks in the neighborhood, never will. Verizon just raised the prices for landlines. It now costs $71 plus all the fees and taxes they throw on just to have what is almost basic telephone service! $90 with the insurance to take care of the line for service calls!! There is no other option! Pay that, or drop having a landline.
Verizon forced me to switch and of course my bill went up. They said that it was cheaper for them to maintain fiber optics than copper. Well, I asked, why didn’t they pass that savings on to customers? Needless to say, the salesperson had nothing to say except that the service would be much better. It’s neither better nor worse, but more expensive and won’t work if there’s an electrical outage.
Hello, Irina–
If you are still interested in a possible return of copper-wire service, please contact me. I’m gathering people in similar situations and looking for an advocate to plead our cause. May be able to get justice through class action.
lindaminarik@lindasarts.com.
Many thanks, Linda
Thank you Susan for the details of your experience ! It is helpful. Very similar to what I have been thinking and doing. I have not really had time to seek out “another copper carrier”. I will ask the NYS PSC when I call as well as my state senator’s office. I don’t really expect them to know or get much help, however they need to hear from us. There is a staff member in our senator’s office who is very helpful, she will work on it for me. Whether she is able to do much remains to be seen.
I will also call and see how far out I can reschedule. My husband is in several covid high risk categories. He is still furloughed as a direct result of the governors orders etc. In addition to not needing the Verizon service people in my home, I need to get electrical work done to accommodate the battery back up. We do not have the dedicated outlet to begin with. Have no garage or basement, so it will have to be put in the water heater closet or laundry room. There are no open outlets at all.
I know they really don’t care if we have to give up the landline in the middle of a pandemic. I guess it is just a pandemic for the rest of us. Not Verizon. We are in the worse before it gets better phase, but you might not know it by the behavior of some.
Will post if I get anywhere.
Good luck on getting another copper service company to your business or residence mainly due to the fact Verizon has the franchise for your area. For another company to service you the public service commission has to approve the franchise for that new enterprise.They in turn have to buy into the existing “plant” or build new facilities a very costly endeavor and time
consuming enterprise. Most copper facilities on the west coast owned by Verizon have been sold to Frontier Communications and the service is adequate for now. We will know better when we have a major earthquake which may be to late then. Pester the PUC for a change , at least you will know you did something.
I am an early Verizon FiOS adopter. It was made available in my town back in 2007 and I still have it today. Been generally pleased with the service. The number of times I’ve had to have Verizon DPO to resolve ONT issues can be counted on one hand.
An early comment noted that Verizon took a haphazard approach to installing fiber. For years, I’ve been trying to get FiOS installed at my church which is about 6 blocks from the house. Each time, Verizon’s reply is “Not Eligible”. In the area of the church, utilities are underground and there are very few residential buildings along the street on our side. Had to make due with Verizon DSL 7/768 for years until Comcast offered to service the building via a round-about way.
Despite moving our Internet service to Comcast, I insisted that the telephone lines remain with Verizon as the service has been extremely reliable (all cables are underground from the CO to the church).
If Verizon is serious about abandoning OSP copper, the company would need to either extend FiOS to all addresses, or, ensure 5G OTA provides full coverage.
It is my understanding that Verizon has halted expansion of FiOS in favor of the 5G OTA delivery model. I’ve seen Verizon pull fiber underground in front of the building and when I “talked shop” with the technicians they admitted that the fiber was for 5G services. (I was an IXC/CLEC CO technician for 23 years before being downsized after a company merger).
Verizon has stopped providing BBUs because of the decline of POTS service. If a user does not have a landline, a BBU is pointless because TV and Internet are not supported during a power outage.
When I decided to upgrade from 75/75 to 400/400 and knowing that Verizon would be replacing our old Tellabs 611 with an Alcatel-Lucent, I purchased a fairly substantial Tripplite UPS to keep the ONT & router up during an outage, and a pair of smaller Tripplites to keep the extenders going so anyone on a laptop or tablet could casually log off & shut down.
Fortunately, since the upgrade, the only subsequent power outage lasted about thirty seconds to a minute.
I fully expect Verizon to follow AT&T’s example and just walk away from copper. AT&T will no longer sell a new telephone line or DSL connection on copper. They just tell people that service is not available. They is true in rural areas and giant cities. AT&T is essentially now out of the copper business. If somebody sells a house, the new tenant can’t get the services. If somebody doesn’t pay a bill and gets disconnected, they can’t be reconnected. AT&T is not offering an alternative at most of these locations – and Verizon won’t either.
“Deregulation” rarely works for consumers. Even with electricity, who has the time to compare rates every year to find out what’s the best deal?